ARWZ :: Science Fiction, Fantasy and Horror Discussion Forums

Violanthe · Webmaster Joined: 24 Jul 2003 Posts: 5903

Welcome to the discussion of our first annual ARWZ Winter Book! I invite everyone to pick up a copy of American Gods by Neil Gaiman and join in the discussion here on ARWZ. If you've already read this book you're more than welcome to join in.

Here are some questions to get us started off:

What are your first impressions of this book? How did the opening line strike you? The opening paragraph?

How do you like this book after reading the first chapter? Does it intrigue you to continue? What questions does it create in your mind? How eager are you to get the answers?

Which of the characters intrigues you most? Do you find that you identify with any of the characters? If so, why? If not, then what about the characters make you want to continue (or not) reading about them?

Please contribute any observations, comments or questions you have about this novel as you read along.

Feel free to check out what people are saying about this book on all our Book Partner sites: ARWZ, Bestsellers & Literature, and Science Fiction.

Finally, there was so much interest in reading our runner-up book, Pavane by Keith Roberts, that the Science Fiction Board is hosting a runner-up discussion on their forum, so please stop by if you're reading Pavane.
_________________
Violet "Violanthe" Kane
[email protected]
ARWZ.com: A Magazine of Alternative Reality Fiction

Golophin · Moderator Joined: 29 Mar 2006 Posts: 238

I have read this book previously so i didnt really form any "first" impressions. Without spoiling it for other readers who haven't read it before i am enjoying the authors punning names and also a game of "guess the god" with the characters Shadow meets on his pilgrimage across America.

On a side note i recently finished a rubbish thriller called Mr Clarinet where the protagonist like Shadow in American Gods loses everything including his wife while in prison. Is this just some lazy device to try and enlist the readers sympathy with a character who is a convicted criminal?

Violanthe · Webmaster Joined: 24 Jul 2003 Posts: 5903

I wouldn't say it's a device for eliciting sympathy for a criminal character. At least not in the case of American Gods. That is, it's not a case of the author saying: "How do we make a convict likeable?"

I think, if anything, it's simply to elicit sympathy for a character. More than that, in the case of American Gods, I think it's a necessary avenue for setting up a character that has nothing to lose by accepting Wednesday's job offer.
_________________
Violet "Violanthe" Kane
[email protected]
ARWZ.com: A Magazine of Alternative Reality Fiction

Golophin · Moderator Joined: 29 Mar 2006 Posts: 238

It also simplifys the writers task. No annoying commitments or mundane ties to be explained away before the adventure can start.

Is the House on the Rock a real attraction?

Violanthe · Webmaster Joined: 24 Jul 2003 Posts: 5903

I'm not sure. Probably. You'd need someone more familiar with that area of the country than me.
_________________
Violet "Violanthe" Kane
[email protected]
ARWZ.com: A Magazine of Alternative Reality Fiction

Golophin · Moderator Joined: 29 Mar 2006 Posts: 238

Im more than half way through American Gods. I really enjoy Mr Ibis's tales. I think the research for this book must have been a real pleasure to do.

Violanthe · Webmaster Joined: 24 Jul 2003 Posts: 5903

It's such a rich story landscape, which is revolutionary for fantasy because it's a real landscape. Yet somehow Gaiman manages to make America work like a fantasy world.
_________________
Violet "Violanthe" Kane
[email protected]
ARWZ.com: A Magazine of Alternative Reality Fiction

Golophin · Moderator Joined: 29 Mar 2006 Posts: 238

In that respect it reminds me a little of Clive Barkers "Weaveworld" with the mixing of the magical and the mundane.

Violanthe · Webmaster Joined: 24 Jul 2003 Posts: 5903

I quite like the mix of magic and mundane. I think that magic has gotten too serious and grand in most fantasy. I like to see it in a more ordinary setting.

So, here's a question for those who are far enough to have met Wednesday:

What do you think of this character? Do you find him intriguing? Have any of the clues tipped you off to his identity?

Feel free to post spoilers, but give us some warning.
_________________
Violet "Violanthe" Kane
[email protected]
ARWZ.com: A Magazine of Alternative Reality Fiction

librarylover · Moderator Joined: 05 Apr 2006 Posts: 277

My first impression was very good. I believe I'm going to greatly enjoy the book.

I've only read Anansi Boys so I don't know anything about Wednesday, but I presumed he was/is a god.

Violanthe · Webmaster Joined: 24 Jul 2003 Posts: 5903

Did you make that presumption based on the title?
_________________
Violet "Violanthe" Kane
[email protected]
ARWZ.com: A Magazine of Alternative Reality Fiction

Mervi · Warlord Joined: 29 Aug 2006 Posts: 1119 Location: Finland

I read the book a few years ago when it first came out in paperback. I love the short stories in it, especially the ones about the primitive tribes. I didn't like the main story as much, mainly because Shadow is a very colourless and passive MC.

Violanthe · Webmaster Joined: 24 Jul 2003 Posts: 5903

Not all protagonists can be forceful and strong. Some have to make the choice to follow the tide rather than rail against it.
_________________
Violet "Violanthe" Kane
[email protected]
ARWZ.com: A Magazine of Alternative Reality Fiction

librarylover · Moderator Joined: 05 Apr 2006 Posts: 277

Vio, I presumed it because he selected his name based upon the day of the week and the fact that Gaimon likes gods.

A quick question that is important to me. There is a very graphic sexual scene in the first chapter. Are there a lot of these throughout the book?

Violanthe · Webmaster Joined: 24 Jul 2003 Posts: 5903

I don't think so. To tell you the truth, though, I can't remember the one you just referenced. But I read this novel several months ago. There may be one or two sex scenes, but they aren't frequent.
_________________
Violet "Violanthe" Kane
[email protected]
ARWZ.com: A Magazine of Alternative Reality Fiction

Golophin · Moderator Joined: 29 Mar 2006 Posts: 238

On this my second read the end of the book makes a lot more sense.

Violanthe · Webmaster Joined: 24 Jul 2003 Posts: 5903

What did you pick up the second time that you feel you missed the first time?
_________________
Violet "Violanthe" Kane
[email protected]
ARWZ.com: A Magazine of Alternative Reality Fiction

Golophin · Moderator Joined: 29 Mar 2006 Posts: 238

Well knowing the plan this time around it was easier to appreciate Odin and Loki's scheme. They are a couple of trickster gods.

Violanthe · Webmaster Joined: 24 Jul 2003 Posts: 5903

So, you could see it all unfold? Interesting. It's certainly a multi-layered book.
_________________
Violet "Violanthe" Kane
[email protected]
ARWZ.com: A Magazine of Alternative Reality Fiction

librarylover · Moderator Joined: 05 Apr 2006 Posts: 277

Possible spoiler - but not much of one. Smile

I've passed the scene of the bank robbery. What made me laugh so hard is one of those pet peeves of mine. When Wednesday puts up a sign closing the ATM and the night deposit, he writes the word "improvements" like this "improvement's." I always hate it when someone turns a plural noun into possessive for no reason at all - and it happens a lot. I wonder if Gaiman feels the same way. Smile

Violanthe · Webmaster Joined: 24 Jul 2003 Posts: 5903

Me too, though sometimes, I realize it is just a typo. But sometimes it's a true mistake, I'm sure it was an intentional jab on Gaiman's part.

That's an interesting detail, which I did not pick up because I "read" the book on audio.
_________________
Violet "Violanthe" Kane
[email protected]
ARWZ.com: A Magazine of Alternative Reality Fiction

Peter · Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:23 am

I borrowed this one from my local library the other day.

Violanthe · Webmaster Joined: 24 Jul 2003 Posts: 5903

You'll have to let us know your thoughts as you're reading.
_________________
Violet "Violanthe" Kane
[email protected]
ARWZ.com: A Magazine of Alternative Reality Fiction

librarylover · Moderator Joined: 05 Apr 2006 Posts: 277

I'm finding Shadow to be a little too easygoing and accepting of his situation. If my husband were dead, and just showed up like that, I'd be pretty "weirded out."

Violanthe · Webmaster Joined: 24 Jul 2003 Posts: 5903

Would you be quite as weirded out if you were already working for a Norse god?
_________________
Violet "Violanthe" Kane
[email protected]
ARWZ.com: A Magazine of Alternative Reality Fiction

pecooper · Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 3:52 pm

Violanthe · Webmaster Joined: 24 Jul 2003 Posts: 5903

Without giving too much away, we do find out that there's more to Odin than Wednesday.
_________________
Violet "Violanthe" Kane
[email protected]
ARWZ.com: A Magazine of Alternative Reality Fiction

pecooper · Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 8:56 pm

There have been a number of comments about Shadow, so I thought I would offer my take on him.

The character of Shadow is problem I had with the book. He is basically a cipher. He seems to exist solely to reflect what the author is trying to portray at the moment, not to be an independent person. For instance, we are given a few bits of information about his background, things that have happened to him, but we don't get much information about how those things affected him, how they shaped his personality.

About the only certainty we get about Shadow's personality is that he is very easily lead by anybody who gains any importance in his life. He obeys their bidding without comment or thinking about the consequences. There are several implications made that his wife got him to take part in the bank robbery that he went to jail for, so it's no wonder that he does just what Wednesday tells him to without thinking about it. That, in turn, requires his actions at the end of the book to be out of character.

Now, it might be possible to argue that, because of the story that Gaiman is telling, this personality is required. I'm not convinced. I've seen it done before (by Gaiman, himself, no less) with a more assertive, contemplative and well rounded character, and I found that story more compelling than I found American Gods.

Anybody else feel that shadow wasn't very well developed, or am I alone in my assessment?

Peter · Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 11:15 pm

No, you aren't alone. I found the book to be exceedingly ordinary - it was perhaps hyped a little due to Gaiman's name and prowess as a comics author.

Shadow is a cardboard cutout, as you say. He's probably Gaiman's English and ostensibly neutral voice, commenting on what he sees as he travels the US.

ljim2000 · Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 1:27 am

I have very mixed feelings about this book. It did compel me to keep reading it, but at the same time I was often disappointed by a lack of suspension of disbelief. The god characters never seemed godly to me, in particular Wednesday didn't seem much like Odin. Shadow seemed desperately void of his own personality and what little was given was often contradicted. The ending I kind of liked more than the middle or beginning, and yet that was a simple murder mystery device.

A couple of us did read this over at the Science Fiction board as a sister board group read to this one. You can check out our dialog here.

pecooper · Posted: Sat Mar 03, 2007 7:42 pm

My first introduction to Neil Gaiman was Good Omens, a book by him and Terry Pratchett. It is a perfect example of a collaboration, a book done by two writers that neither of them could have done alone. This is the story of the forces heaven and hell and the coming of the Anti-Christ, the son of the Devil. Unfortunately, because a mix-up at the hospital, nobody knows where the antichrist is. It is screamingly funny with a large cast of well developed secondary characters, including angels, devils, the four bikers of the apocalypse, the four secondary bikers of grievous bodily harm, a professional descendant, the remnants of the witchfinder army, Dog, a hellhound, and, of course, the nice and accurate prophecies of Agnes Nutter, witch. The Anti-Christ, himself, is such a well drawn character, you find yourself rooting for him, particularly when he is called upon to bring on the end of the world. It is a brilliant commentary on way the world works.

I followed up on both Gaiman and Pratchett. I've read pretty much everything that Pratchett has written. He writes books with funny scenes that, at first glance, look like digressions, but which, in the end, contribute to the central story. At his best, he holds up a mirror to life and the world. I have been less impressed with Gaiman. I think he is a great short story writer, but he falls down when he tries longer works. In his novels too many scenes feel like they are padding, just to get the word count up -- they don't contribute to the story. At least, this is how they have struck me.

Which brings me to American Gods. I was nagged by the feeling that something was wrong almost from the beginning of the book, and it got stronger as the book got to its conclusion with the battle between the old and new gods. I had the feeling that I was missing something. I just couldn't put my finger on what it was. It was only later, when the story had begun to digest, that it came to me.

Take the central story, and strip away all the trimmings. The book is about a supernatural being who is trying to do something nasty to the world and is relying on his unsuspecting son to accomplish it. In the end, his son refuses and thwarts him. The world is saved. Basically, American Gods is Good Omens without the wit, the humor, the interesting characters or the sympathetic protagonist. If the book is a commentary on the world, then, for Gaiman at least, the world is a far poorer place than it was 17 years ago.

It was interesting to read American Gods, but since I have seen what Gaiman is capable of, I'm afraid I was disappointed.

Shadow_Ferret · Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:58 am

Violanthe · Webmaster Joined: 24 Jul 2003 Posts: 5903

I personally think that American Gods is a great place to start in reading Gaiman's prose.
_________________
Violet "Violanthe" Kane
[email protected]
ARWZ.com: A Magazine of Alternative Reality Fiction