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Violanthe
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pecooper
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Posted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 8:31 pm |
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Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand
An amazingly unreadable book, which I forced myself to finish. It was a major effort. The only one of her books I did make it through. That's probably why I remember it. |
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Violanthe
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pecooper
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Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 5:07 pm |
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The temptation is launch into a wrathful screed, but I'll restrain myself and just mention a few of the obvious flaws I found.
Characters of the flimsiest cardboard imaginable. They were simply names hung on political points of view and made to mouth political arguments. Let's put it this way, I found Conan the Barbarian more rounded and believable.
A writing style that makes Edgar Rice Burroughs seem like high literature. And don't tell me it was because English wasn't Ayn Rand's first language. That's no excuse -- I have read Joseph Conrad.
A pretense of understanding the underlying forces of economics, while not having a clue about the way the real world works. A copper based alloy is not going to be cheaper than steel for railroad tracks, no matter how it is made.
The use of the dollar sign as a symbol of what is right without understanding that the value of money is based on the stability of the state that backs it up. Every step of Atlas Shrugged undermines the stability of the US, and deprives the government of revenue, which, in turn, makes the dollar sign valueless.
Trying to use a badly written novel as an argument against communism and socialism. In fact, glorying in it, and not trying in any way to make it a piece of literature.
The fact the Rand studied all the sins of Soviet propaganda and included every single on in a book that is supposed to refute said propaganda. (Actually, that's just a way of grouping the previous complaints.)
Finally, I might not have disliked it so much, but the book is held up as a masterpiece by a loud and contentious group of evangelists. They, like the people who have discovered Chariots of the Gods, or, for that matter, Das Kapital, have seen the light and are eager to reform mankind. (I know that is a side issue to the faults of the book, but her partisans still annoy me.)
Oh, my. I did run on a bit. Let's just say, I noticed a few imperfections in the book and felt compelled to mention them. |
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Violanthe
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Shadow_Ferret
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Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 12:58 pm |
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| pecooper wrote: | | The temptation is launch into a wrathful screed, but I'll restrain myself and just mention a few of the obvious flaws I found. |
I wonder if your philosophical differences are biasing your opinion.
And no more insults against Mr. Burroughs. He was a great story-teller. |
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pecooper
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Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 4:11 pm |
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| Violanthe wrote: | | So, it's undeserving of the attention and hype it's gotten? |
That's an pretty accurate assessment.
| Shadow_Ferret wrote: | | And no more insults against Mr. Burroughs. He was a great story-teller. |
I spent my 12th summer sitting in a apple tree reading the Tarzan novels one after the other. Yes he was a great story-teller. However, I don't think anybody has ever commented on his light and lucid phrasing or his clever application of bon mots. |
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Violanthe
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Shadow_Ferret
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Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:55 pm |
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| pecooper wrote: | | Violanthe wrote: | | So, it's undeserving of the attention and hype it's gotten? |
That's an pretty accurate assessment.
| Shadow_Ferret wrote: | | And no more insults against Mr. Burroughs. He was a great story-teller. |
I spent my 12th summer sitting in a apple tree reading the Tarzan novels one after the other. Yes he was a great story-teller. However, I don't think anybody has ever commented on his light and lucid phrasing or his clever application of bon mots. |
I don't even know what a bon mots is, unless it's those little chocolate covered ice cream balls.
But I'll argue that he wrote well enough to make the stories memorable and really, unless you're striving for "literature," that's all one really needs to ask of a writer.
(By the way, I noticed you completely ignored my philosophical bias question.)  |
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pecooper
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Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:34 pm |
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Shadow_Ferret, any person's philosophical viewpoint is going to enter into his evaluation of a book. My philosophical view is going to make it as hard for me to like Das Kapital by Karl Marx as it is for me to like Mein Kampf by Adolph Hitler. I have the same problem with Atlas Shrugged.
The fact that philosophical viewpoint enters into the discussion at all is one of the points I was trying to make. The book is so obviously a piece of political propaganda it is impossible to read it as literature, and it is impossible to discuss it as literature. Contrast that to something like Gulliver's Travels which is also a piece of political propaganda, but which is done in a humorous and entertaining way, and you'll see my point.
So the short answer is, absolutely, I am biased. That does not, however, make the flaws I see in the book untrue. |
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Shadow_Ferret
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Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 10:18 am |
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| Point taken. |
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Violanthe
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Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 10:47 am |
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You bring up an interesting point. When does the political or another philosophical "message" of a book get too strong that it renders the book unenjoyable for folks of a different viewpoint - or even of the same viewpoint. Can a book ever present a philosophical or political point of view in such a manner that a person of the opposite POV will still enjoy it?
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Mervi
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Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 12:21 pm |
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| Violanthe wrote: | | Can a book ever present a philosophical or political point of view in such a manner that a person of the opposite POV will still enjoy it? |
Lots of fantasy books are pro-monarchy and pro-oligarchy and point out that the position and "destiny" that a person is born with are far more important than anything a person might learn on their own. I don't believe in any of that and I still manage to read quite a lot of fantasy. On the other hand, that attitude does explain most of the frustration that I have with modern fantasy. |
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Violanthe
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Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:41 am |
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| Quote: | | Lots of fantasy books are pro-monarchy and pro-oligarchy and point out that the position and "destiny" that a person is born with are far more important than anything a person might learn on their own |
Yes, but it's not the political message of the author, is it? It's just authors working within the expected fantasy milieu. I doubt many of those authors are hoping to win readers to a pro-monarchy cause, or that they would advocate monarchy in the modern world.
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Mervi
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Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:31 am |
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True... But writers can include messages even if they don't realize it while they write it. They can be more succesful than inteded messages.
Goodkind is an obvious example of how a writer can belive in the "destiny" and being born better than others. A writer doesn't have to be pro-monarchy to support ideas behind monarchy. |
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Violanthe
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