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Violanthe Webmaster

Joined: 24 Jul 2003 Posts: 5902
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The Surprise Ending done right
Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:40 pm |
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Now, one of the first things I learned in early college writing classes is how empty, ludicrous and unsatisfying a "trick" or surprise ending can be. You know the kind I'm talking about. Say, where the story turns out to have been "all a dream" or where it turns out the main narrator is the family dog.
While the trouble with "trick" surprise endings is that the whole story leads up to a "punchline" consequently making the point of the story the suprise at the end, some of the most well-written and carefully crafted stories also have surprise endings. Only the difference is that those endings are simultaneously well-foreshadowed and surprising, but inevitable.
How does a write avoid the bad type of surprise ending, and how do we strive to create the good type? _________________ Violet "Violanthe" Kane
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DougGogerty Moderator
Joined: 29 Mar 2006 Posts: 418 Location: Minnesota
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Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 5:33 pm |
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In movies it is done right all the time. The Usual Suspects or The Sixth Sense both get the ending plot twist right. However, you do not want the end to be a complete surprise. There need to be tell tale markers that do not leave the reader saying "Where did that come from?" or "That was a complete waste of time."
These kinds of plot twists are a staple of mystery novels. Thus, there is plenty to study if you want to see it done right (and wrong.) Poe's Murders on Rue Morgue is an excellent example of such a shocking twist, that they have never dared do it in a movie. The story is always changed in the movie. (Now you want to read it don't you?)
I think a shocking plot twist is more common in shorter works. It is easier to pull off. In long works it can be like some of those terrible jokes where you hear the punch line and say, "I waited through all of that -- for THAT ending?" It is better to do several little twists and turns in a long story to keep people guessing. Then, even the most obvious of endings is still surprising. _________________ Douglas E. Gogerty
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"No, I'm from Iowa. I just work in outer space."
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Violanthe Webmaster

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Nik Senior Member
Joined: 07 Dec 2006 Posts: 804 Location: UK
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I tell jokes badly...
Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 11:02 am |
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Because I tell jokes badly, I've learned not to rely on a punch-line.
Okay, I may slip in a wry quip at the end of a tale, but it had better follow plot & context... |
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Richard H. Fay Senior Member
Joined: 07 Sep 2007 Posts: 523 Location: Upstate New York
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Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 11:14 am |
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I've tried one flash piece with a "punch line" ending, and it hasn't been well-received. I don't think this format is very popular with editors. A few actually mention this as one of the various type of tales that they don't usually take. _________________ "I'm going to do what the warriors of old did. I'm going to recite poetry!"
Richard H. Fay - Azure Lion Productions
https://azurelionproductions.com
See cool stuff featuring my art at the Abandoned Towers Zazzle Store:
https://www.zazzle.com/abandonedtowers |
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Violanthe Webmaster

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Richard H. Fay Senior Member
Joined: 07 Sep 2007 Posts: 523 Location: Upstate New York
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Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:46 am |
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Violanthe wrote: | The punch line ending is something of a universal no-no. |
Why is that? Is there never a time that the puch-line ending works? Or has it just been overdone and overused so much that, like so many other techniques, it's no longer acceptable?
My concern is that so many techniques and tricks are being seen as "no-nos", that not much is left in a writer's dwindling arsenal.
(By the way, the editor that originally looked at my own "punch-line" story said it made him chuckle, but he didn't feel it would get past the other editors at that particular publication. He actually suggested that I pass it along to another publication that might take that sort of thing, but I decided to just hang onto the piece for now. I may eventually post it on my web site.) _________________ "I'm going to do what the warriors of old did. I'm going to recite poetry!"
Richard H. Fay - Azure Lion Productions
https://azurelionproductions.com
See cool stuff featuring my art at the Abandoned Towers Zazzle Store:
https://www.zazzle.com/abandonedtowers |
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DougGogerty Moderator
Joined: 29 Mar 2006 Posts: 418 Location: Minnesota
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Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 11:47 am |
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A story with a punch line is called a "joke". While I like jokes, and sometimes like to tell really long jokes with a groaner of a punch line, they generally cannot be pulled off as a story. (As are the terrible jokes I have been known to tell.) _________________ Douglas E. Gogerty
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"No, I'm from Iowa. I just work in outer space."
-James T. Kirk |
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Richard H. Fay Senior Member
Joined: 07 Sep 2007 Posts: 523 Location: Upstate New York
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Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:45 pm |
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DougGogerty wrote: | A story with a punch line is called a "joke". While I like jokes, and sometimes like to tell really long jokes with a groaner of a punch line, they generally cannot be pulled off as a story. (As are the terrible jokes I have been known to tell.) |
I definitely agree that they cannot generally be pulled off as stories, but is this rule written in stone? Can it actually be done right, or are all stories with punch lines garbage? _________________ "I'm going to do what the warriors of old did. I'm going to recite poetry!"
Richard H. Fay - Azure Lion Productions
https://azurelionproductions.com
See cool stuff featuring my art at the Abandoned Towers Zazzle Store:
https://www.zazzle.com/abandonedtowers |
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Violanthe Webmaster

Joined: 24 Jul 2003 Posts: 5902
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Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:46 am |
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Short story length stories with punch lines are garbage.
Why? Because the story is about fooling the reader, not engaging the reader. It's an egotistical exercise on the part of a writer, basically saying: "Haha, I can write a story hiding a major part of it from you only to spring it on you at the end to make you feel stupid."
That's not why people read stories. When the whole point of the story is the last line, then you have to ask why even read it in the first place? _________________ Violet "Violanthe" Kane
[email protected]
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Gordon Long Regular Member
Joined: 31 Oct 2007 Posts: 203 Location: Vancouver, Canada
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Punch Lines
Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:39 am |
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I agree with the people who consider a punch line to be the end of a joke. A short joke.
One situation where a twist works at the end of a story is when the twist is integral to the theme, and helps to develop it. Then people don't say, 'I read the whole story for that?' they say. 'Oh, I see. Neat."
Simplistic example: if you were writing a story about racism, and the final twist demonstrated that the reader was racial stereotyping, (ie. reader assumed the character was black, when the character was white all along) then the twist would be appropriate. |
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Violanthe Webmaster

Joined: 24 Jul 2003 Posts: 5902
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Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 11:18 am |
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Having a twist at the end is different than a punchline ending, though some people do call the latter a "twist"
But if by twist you mean inversion, then that's certainly a valid ending choice.
In the example you gave, it would be okay as long as the author did not deliberately and unnaturally hide the race of the character, and left enough clues that a perceptive reader should have been able to figure it out. But otherwise, if the writer is going to great lengths simply not to mention any details of the race of the character, just to spring that surprise on the reader at the end, then it's just as gimmicky and punchline-y as anything else. _________________ Violet "Violanthe" Kane
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Gordon Long Regular Member
Joined: 31 Oct 2007 Posts: 203 Location: Vancouver, Canada
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Punch Lines
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:45 am |
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Now you're into the realm of what each individual reader will accept. In fact, we are always hiding things from the reader, because writing, like movies or any other art, is a process of deliberately showing only what the author wants to show.
The bottom line is whether the reader feels he (she) has had enough clues to figure it out, or not: whether the reader feels the author is being "unnatural". If the you are perceived as "unnatural", then you blew it. O. Henry seems to have managed pretty well. I guess you and I can have a try at it, if we think it's the appropriate way to get the message across.
That's the key. If it isn't the best way to get the message across, then you're messing with people, and they won't like it. |
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Violanthe Webmaster

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David Thomas Lord Visiting Author
Joined: 05 Jul 2006 Posts: 172
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:08 am |
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I'd suggest reading O. Henry or Guy de Maupassant, the two masters of the "trick" or "surprise" ending. O. Henry is one of my two favorite authors, and is considerably more cheerful than de Maupassant.
I believe that in order to construct a story with a "trick" ending, you actually have to be constructing a morality tale, like those in Aesop's Fables. So, along with the synopsis, you'd also have to plan the moral of the story ("Be happy with what you have," "All that glitters isn't gold," "Be careful what you wish for," "The grass is always greener on the other side of the street," etc.). Then you might want to determine whether you want your story to be sweet ("The Gift of the Magi") or rueful ("The Necklace"). |
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Richard H. Fay Senior Member
Joined: 07 Sep 2007 Posts: 523 Location: Upstate New York
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:29 am |
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Saki's "The Open Window" is possibly another example of the twist ending done right:
https://www.hermes-press.com/saki1.htm
This one has a twist ending provided by a character; a "self-possessed young lady of fifteen". Actually, the twist isn't so much in the ending, but in what she tells a visitor. The ending is rather normal, but made into a twist by her story.
I always felt that this was a cute little story. _________________ "I'm going to do what the warriors of old did. I'm going to recite poetry!"
Richard H. Fay - Azure Lion Productions
https://azurelionproductions.com
See cool stuff featuring my art at the Abandoned Towers Zazzle Store:
https://www.zazzle.com/abandonedtowers |
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Violanthe Webmaster

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David Thomas Lord Visiting Author
Joined: 05 Jul 2006 Posts: 172
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Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:05 am |
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Vio,
I think the difference is in the "reveal." A true surprise ending is one that, not only did you not see coming, but is also a great ending. The "it was all a dream" and like endings are such that you did see it coming due to the quality of the writing and it's both sad and cheap. A great surprise ending is exhilarating. |
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Gordon Long Regular Member
Joined: 31 Oct 2007 Posts: 203 Location: Vancouver, Canada
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Surprise ending done right
Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:58 am |
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[quote="Richard H. Fay"]Saki's "The Open Window" is possibly another example of the twist ending done right:
I would like to disagree in part with the comment that this is a "cute little story". I think it's delightful, and, if you read it carefully, not very cute at all, and therein lies its appeal.
While we're trying to fathom the technique of surprise endings, it's good to look at a superbly done example. I think it's a matter of depth, or richness, of the writing. The trick that is played on the reader and the character is a cute one, and worthy of an even shorter story. However, the rest of the print is taken up with description of the main character, his own problems and weakness.
So when the end comes, there is a much more macabre tone. What could have been a girlish trick could become a turning point in a man's life. The story leaves us to imagine what might happen to the poor victim next, and if the young lady ever learns of the result of her callous trick.
One other element that makes this a good surprise ending, as every murder mystery writer knows, is that on a second reading, the possibility of the ending is there all along. We always like to think that we haven't been fooled that much, if we'd only been reading a little more carefully, we might have spotted it.
Perhaps an unworthy cavil, but I think the last line should have been left off. For a modern audience, I'm sure it would have. It is redundant, it talks down to the reader, it explains something that needs no explanation.
By the way, the url posted did not work for me. Easy to Google it and find the story, however. Read it! |
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Violanthe Webmaster

Joined: 24 Jul 2003 Posts: 5902
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Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:02 pm |
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David Thomas Lord wrote: | I think the difference is in the "reveal." A true surprise ending is one that, not only did you not see coming, but is also a great ending. The "it was all a dream" and like endings are such that you did see it coming due to the quality of the writing and it's both sad and cheap. A great surprise ending is exhilarating. |
I guess that still gets to the root of the question... what makes some surprise endings good, and some cheap? We've already identified elements of the cheap. What are elements of the good? _________________ Violet "Violanthe" Kane
[email protected]
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